LEFEBVRE AND PADRE PIO

The following is a copy of a letter sent to the Catholic Times by Stephen M. Smith of London, concerning a meeting between Marcel Lefebvre and Padre Pio in 1962 (or 1967).

(Note: As of 8/3/2002 I have a December 1979 copy of the book Apologia Marcel Lefebvre, Volume I, which does contain the photo of the meeting between Padre Pio and Lefebvre.    The only comment I've received thus far is that the story below is "consistent with what we know of Padre Pio."  The story may or may not be true and there is a letter (at the bottom of this page) purported to be from Lefebvre refuting the story immediately below.)

Further to the comments of Mrs. Susan Murray concerning the example of obedience to superiors set by Padre Pio. Catholic Times readers may be interested to learn of the meeting of Padre Pio with the late Archbishop Lefebvre in 1962, shortly after the archbishop had been made Superior General of the Holy Ghost Fathers.

The archbishop had a meeting with Padre Pio in the presence of Professor Bruno Rabajotti. This witness reported that at a particular moment Padre Pio looked at Lefebvre very sternly and said: "Never cause discord among your brothers and always practice the rule of obedience, above all when it seems to you that the errors of those in authority are all the more serious. There is no other road than that of obedience, especially for those who have made this vow."

Padre Pio could give this advice because he had to obey some rather questionable orders himself. His attitude was to put this in God's hands because He would find a way for truth to triumph. It seems that Archbishop Lefebvre did not see things in quite the same way even if he did respond to Padre Pio with "'twill remember that, Father."

Padre Pio looked at him intensely and, seeing what would soon happen, said: "No! You will forget it. You will tear apart the community of the faithful, oppose the will of your superiors and even go against the orders of the Pope himself -- and this will happen quite soon. You will forget the promise you made here today, and the whole Church will be hurt by you. Don't set yourself up as a judge. Don't take powers that do not belong to you and do not consider yourself as the voice of God's people, as God already speaks to them. Do not cause discord and dissension. However, I know that this is what you will do!"

(Quote taken from Padre Pio Gleanings by Pascal Catanes, 1991)

How significant that the Padre Pio who foresaw the disobedience of Lefebvre was the same Padre Pio who met a young Fr. Karol Wojtyla in 1947 and told him that he would one day be Sovereign Pontiff. God bless our Pope.

(Signed) Stephen M. Smith, London

I have been told that this photo only appeared in the early copies of Volume I of Mr. Davies work; it being removed from subsequent editions.   The picture below may or may not be the one to which Mr. Smith refers in his message.

Here's another side of the story sent to me which may or may not be the truth as well.  There are two pictures (photographer(s) unknown) of the meeting.  The top one was included with the message I received.  The bottom one is a copy of the one in the APML, Vol. 1.  They are of the same event but taken from different perspectives.   The top photo was taken at chest level - the lower one at approximately head level and slightly to the left.  They may or may not have been taken by the same photographer.

Mr. Smith notes that the photo to which he refers was taken in 1962.  In the letter, below, reputedly written by Lefebvre, the year given is 1967; both dates are before Lefebvre began what would ultimately be his schismatic movement and shortly before Padre Pio died on September 23rd, 1968.

It is to be noted that of this supposed letter by Lefebvre there is no heading, no salutation, no address, no date, no nothing which might lend credence to it.  It is as bereft of details as is the supposed conversation above between Lefebvre and Padre Pio.  Take it all for what it's worth.  As a Capuchin told me, regarding the comments attributed to Padre Pio (as noted above), the story is "consistent with what we know of Padre Pio."  So take it for what it is worth.

On August 8, 1990, Archbishop Lefebvre supposedly wrote a personal letter' to a Society priest in France who had written to ask him about the meeting with Padre Pio.  Here are extracts from the letter:

For several years now this slander, a fabrication from start to finish, has been circulating in Italy. 1 have already refuted it, but lies die hard there is not one word of truth in the page of that magazine you photocopied for me.

The meeting which took place after Easter in 1967 lasted two minutes.  I was accompanied by Fr. Barbara and a Holy Ghost Brother, Brother Felin.  I met Padre Pio in a corridor, on his way to the confessional, being helped by two Capuchins.

I told him in a few words the purpose of my visit: for him to bless the Congregation of the Holy Ghost which was due to hold an extraordinary General Chapter meeting, like all religious societies, under the heading of aggiornamento (up-dating), a meeting which I was afraid would lead to trouble.   Then Padre Pio cried out. "Me, bless an archbishop, no, no, it is you who should be blessing me!"  And he bowed, to receive the blessing.  I blessed him, he kissed my ring and continued on his way to the confessional.

That was the whole of the meeting; no more, no less.  To invent such an account as you sent me the copy of calls for a satanic imagination and mendacity.  The author is a son of the Father of Lies.

Thank you for giving me the chance to tell once more the plain truth.

Most cordially yours in Christo et Maria,

+Marcel Lefebvre